Way of the Turtle: The Secret Methods that Turned Ordinary People into Legendary Traders
Product ID: 4699223
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“We're going to raise traders just like they raise turtles in Singapore.” So trading guru Richard Dennis reportedly said to his long-time friend William Eckhardt nearly 25 years ago. What started as a bet about whether great traders were born or made became a legendary trading experiment that, until now, has never been told in its entirety. Way of the Turtle reveals, for the first time, the reasons for the success of the secretive trading system used by the group known as the “Turtles.” Top-earningTurtle Curtis Faith lays bare the entire experiment, explaining how it was possible for Dennis and Eckhardt to recruit 23 ordinary people from all walks of life and train them to be extraordinary traders in just two weeks. Only nineteen years old at the time-the youngest Turtle by far-Faith traded the largest account, making more than $30 million in just over four years. He takes you behind the scenes of the Turtle selection process and behind closed doors where the Turtles learned the lucrative trading strategies that enabled them to earn an average return of over 80 percent per year and profits of more than $100 million. You'll discover How the Turtles made money-the principles that guided their trading and the step-by-step methods they followed Why, even though they used the same approach, some Turtles were more successful than others How to look beyond the rules as the Turtles implemented them to find core strategies that work for any tradable market How to apply the Turtle Way to your own trades-and in your own life Ways to diversify your trading and limit your exposure to risk Offering his unique perspective on the experience, Faith explains why the Turtle Way works in modern markets, and shares hard-earned wisdom on taking risks, choosing your own path, and learning from your mistakes. Review: A Very Good Book - Depending on What You're After - If the term 'Turtles' has you scratching your head, then I will start by saying that they were a group of students brought together by legendary trader Richard Dennis (featured in Market Wizards) in the mid-1980s as part of an experiment to see if successful trading could be taught. Dennis and his partner William Eckhardt (featured in The New Market Wizards) selected two classes and taught them their trend following methodology, then provided each with trading capital and set them loose on the markets. Way of the Turtle is less a history lesson about the Turtles (for that you can read The Complete Turtle Trader), and more a deeper discussion of the philosophy behind the trend following methodology Dennis and Eckhardt taught them and the implementation of that system. The Turtle system has been published in other formats and other places before now, but Faith does more than that in Way of the Turtle. He talks considerably about the requirements for successfully implementing the system and how easy it is to fail with it. To my mind, Way of the Turtle is a book of three primary parts. One is a really interesting discussion of the psychology of traders and the markets. Another is a very thorough exploration of system development, testing, and performance measurement. The final part is specific discussions of the Turtles and their methods. The issue some readers might have is the manner of presentation of the parts. I personally found the chapters on system design, testing, and evalutation to be the most unified and consistently coherent of the book. They progress well and present some things that I have not previously seen in comparable discussions. I found Faith's coverage of the material to be an excellent advancement into somewhat more complex approaches for one who has a decent basic grounding. His discussion of the subject is, to my mind, a virtual must read for anyone look to develop and/or evaluate trading systems. In terms of trader and market psychology, the early chapters of the book are an outstanding exposition on the different biases and mental states that we all go through as market participants in one fashion or another. It was this material, so plainly laid out, which got me very excited to be reading the book. It really is a fantastic look at the things we have in our heads which can create so much havoc in our trading, and Faith frequently cites examples of these things through the remainder of the book in talking about his and other Turtles' successes and failures trading their system. It's in the third subject of the book where many readers may find it lacking. Way of the Turtle, as I noted at the outset, is not a history. While Faith does clearly deliniate the full Turtle system he spends relatively little time talking about the grand experiment which the Turtles were meant to be. Rather he provides views and opinions from his own perspective. Necessarily, that makes for a narrow scope. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. One just needs to realize that going in and be prepared to find it in little bits scattered throughout the text. Here's the biggest rub - at least for someone expecting to come away with an immediately useful trading system. Even though the book does tell you exactly how the Turtle system worked, don't expect it to be something you can use yourself. It was specifically designed for use across an array of markets by traders with a large capital base. By that I mean hundreds of thousands of dollars, minimum. As such, the vast majority of readers will not be in a position to make use of it. So it's a question of expectations. Are you looking to become a new Turtle and trade just like them? If so, you're probably going to be disappointed. If, however, you are looking to learn from the experience and education of someone who was there, who learned a great many lessons under the tutelage of a pair of legendary traders, then you will probably come away from reading Way of the Turtle quite satisfied. Review: Way of the Turtle: The Secreyt Methods that turn Ordinary People into Legendary Traders... I should have read this 10 yrs. ago! - I have traded: Daytraded (30-50 trades a day, churning the acct. during the internet bubble) started with $30,000 and in a year was up over $200,000. This is easy. Anything I read about, I bought after 9:45am and sold the 15-25 positions I bought before 10:45am with a net 70% winners. Go out for lunch with others from the sweatshop, returned at 2pm, 2:30-3pm buy 10-20 stocks, 300/500/1000 shares using margin, always the internet flyers (desertcart, yahoo, dell, google, and a short list of 100. We had a new guy to follow, Jim Cramer, who was writing a newsletter to Jeff. Jeff would load up his positions (he would hold for 3,4,5 days, swing trade, AND he had traded for acct.s at Paine Webber for 4 years before opening his own acct.), anyway, he would load up his positions, and then tell the room (20-30 traders) what to buy... and create his own trend... I left the bubble on 2001 from all the fun of 1998, with Planet Hollywood bought at $24 and then at $2 (10,000shares... just like Hard Rock, I'm gonna get rich!) and another: Puma Tech. (bought out by Nokia for all their pattents at pennies on the dollar... I'm still deducting only $3000 a year off taxes from the $100K+ losses. I never harvested any money, never took $25,000 off the table, and deposited it into a bank acct. every 3 months... GREED and EMOTIONS. But, now I read Trendtraders and Way of the Turtle and better understand that I was swept up into a hurricane, swept up in a massive trend, and was uneducted, and thought I was "lucky". Read these 2 books and Covel's other course materials, and learn the proper way to trade, invest, harvest gains, manage money, use stops, and become emotionally cold. Sell the RED trades quickly, and let the green trades run, until they slow, and then sell. Have a sell target ready ever before we make a trade. I came back to the markets and lost moneis 3 more times since 2001. I would read Elder, and his system to id trends, and 13ema cross-overs etc. and lost, I read, reentered and now I am down to my last monies. I have read The Way of the Turtle Trader, and The Trend Follower, both books completed this past month. I waited for my excitment to simmer down. I can now say after the second readings, I see my errors, and will humbly study, and follow Covel's studies... I will add to this review in 6 more months after I venture into the shark filled waters of the trading world. I shall have paid too much money on ego, and not have found these excellent books, and trustworthy Covel trading systems. I traded next to my friend Tom's Tradestation programmed computer, and still my money mismanagement was the achilles heal that had me still trying to hit homeruns EVERY time, and not realizing singles, and doubles, and even walks, are part of staying in the major leagues, not hitting a homerun only every 55 times up to the plate! Read these books! Hold back playing with your money, read these books, and go to the website. Ask for Mike, Michael Covel. There are better systems than LUCK.
| Best Sellers Rank | #97,346 in Books ( See Top 100 in Books ) #631 in Investing (Books) #961 in Economics (Books) |
| Customer Reviews | 4.5 out of 5 stars 828 Reviews |
J**N
A Very Good Book - Depending on What You're After
If the term 'Turtles' has you scratching your head, then I will start by saying that they were a group of students brought together by legendary trader Richard Dennis (featured in Market Wizards) in the mid-1980s as part of an experiment to see if successful trading could be taught. Dennis and his partner William Eckhardt (featured in The New Market Wizards) selected two classes and taught them their trend following methodology, then provided each with trading capital and set them loose on the markets. Way of the Turtle is less a history lesson about the Turtles (for that you can read The Complete Turtle Trader), and more a deeper discussion of the philosophy behind the trend following methodology Dennis and Eckhardt taught them and the implementation of that system. The Turtle system has been published in other formats and other places before now, but Faith does more than that in Way of the Turtle. He talks considerably about the requirements for successfully implementing the system and how easy it is to fail with it. To my mind, Way of the Turtle is a book of three primary parts. One is a really interesting discussion of the psychology of traders and the markets. Another is a very thorough exploration of system development, testing, and performance measurement. The final part is specific discussions of the Turtles and their methods. The issue some readers might have is the manner of presentation of the parts. I personally found the chapters on system design, testing, and evalutation to be the most unified and consistently coherent of the book. They progress well and present some things that I have not previously seen in comparable discussions. I found Faith's coverage of the material to be an excellent advancement into somewhat more complex approaches for one who has a decent basic grounding. His discussion of the subject is, to my mind, a virtual must read for anyone look to develop and/or evaluate trading systems. In terms of trader and market psychology, the early chapters of the book are an outstanding exposition on the different biases and mental states that we all go through as market participants in one fashion or another. It was this material, so plainly laid out, which got me very excited to be reading the book. It really is a fantastic look at the things we have in our heads which can create so much havoc in our trading, and Faith frequently cites examples of these things through the remainder of the book in talking about his and other Turtles' successes and failures trading their system. It's in the third subject of the book where many readers may find it lacking. Way of the Turtle, as I noted at the outset, is not a history. While Faith does clearly deliniate the full Turtle system he spends relatively little time talking about the grand experiment which the Turtles were meant to be. Rather he provides views and opinions from his own perspective. Necessarily, that makes for a narrow scope. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. One just needs to realize that going in and be prepared to find it in little bits scattered throughout the text. Here's the biggest rub - at least for someone expecting to come away with an immediately useful trading system. Even though the book does tell you exactly how the Turtle system worked, don't expect it to be something you can use yourself. It was specifically designed for use across an array of markets by traders with a large capital base. By that I mean hundreds of thousands of dollars, minimum. As such, the vast majority of readers will not be in a position to make use of it. So it's a question of expectations. Are you looking to become a new Turtle and trade just like them? If so, you're probably going to be disappointed. If, however, you are looking to learn from the experience and education of someone who was there, who learned a great many lessons under the tutelage of a pair of legendary traders, then you will probably come away from reading Way of the Turtle quite satisfied.
P**T
Way of the Turtle: The Secreyt Methods that turn Ordinary People into Legendary Traders... I should have read this 10 yrs. ago!
I have traded: Daytraded (30-50 trades a day, churning the acct. during the internet bubble) started with $30,000 and in a year was up over $200,000. This is easy. Anything I read about, I bought after 9:45am and sold the 15-25 positions I bought before 10:45am with a net 70% winners. Go out for lunch with others from the sweatshop, returned at 2pm, 2:30-3pm buy 10-20 stocks, 300/500/1000 shares using margin, always the internet flyers (amazon, yahoo, dell, google, and a short list of 100. We had a new guy to follow, Jim Cramer, who was writing a newsletter to Jeff. Jeff would load up his positions (he would hold for 3,4,5 days, swing trade, AND he had traded for acct.s at Paine Webber for 4 years before opening his own acct.), anyway, he would load up his positions, and then tell the room (20-30 traders) what to buy... and create his own trend... I left the bubble on 2001 from all the fun of 1998, with Planet Hollywood bought at $24 and then at $2 (10,000shares... just like Hard Rock, I'm gonna get rich!) and another: Puma Tech. (bought out by Nokia for all their pattents at pennies on the dollar... I'm still deducting only $3000 a year off taxes from the $100K+ losses. I never harvested any money, never took $25,000 off the table, and deposited it into a bank acct. every 3 months... GREED and EMOTIONS. But, now I read Trendtraders and Way of the Turtle and better understand that I was swept up into a hurricane, swept up in a massive trend, and was uneducted, and thought I was "lucky". Read these 2 books and Covel's other course materials, and learn the proper way to trade, invest, harvest gains, manage money, use stops, and become emotionally cold. Sell the RED trades quickly, and let the green trades run, until they slow, and then sell. Have a sell target ready ever before we make a trade. I came back to the markets and lost moneis 3 more times since 2001. I would read Elder, and his system to id trends, and 13ema cross-overs etc. and lost, I read, reentered and now I am down to my last monies. I have read The Way of the Turtle Trader, and The Trend Follower, both books completed this past month. I waited for my excitment to simmer down. I can now say after the second readings, I see my errors, and will humbly study, and follow Covel's studies... I will add to this review in 6 more months after I venture into the shark filled waters of the trading world. I shall have paid too much money on ego, and not have found these excellent books, and trustworthy Covel trading systems. I traded next to my friend Tom's Tradestation programmed computer, and still my money mismanagement was the achilles heal that had me still trying to hit homeruns EVERY time, and not realizing singles, and doubles, and even walks, are part of staying in the major leagues, not hitting a homerun only every 55 times up to the plate! Read these books! Hold back playing with your money, read these books, and go to the website. Ask for Mike, Michael Covel. There are better systems than LUCK.
S**D
Interesting read
It's a very interesting read to find out how the turtles were raised to trade millions. What makes it more interesting is that it has been a secret all these years. This book gives you a very good look the read hard-core trading system and it's users. It makes you think your own trading and system and helps figure out new ideas. However, the turtle system is not for all like it is stated in the book. You should have $100,000 trading account at minimum to try this out and it doesn't guarantee that you would succeed. So for the small scale traders this system is not applicable. It is also mentioned that not all people have the attitude and mindset to strictly follow the rules, which is really needed for the system to work. I would recommend this book for all who are into trading, but with the reservation it might not make you a succesful trader. But then, what book could?
J**K
Curtis Faith's Book is a Must for a Serious Trader
Recently I wrote a review on a technical analysis book whose table of contents and subject index I examined before deciding not to purchase it. I was already far beyond the need for a list of buy/sell indicators which were probably unproven and which were certainly not optimized in a robust fashion over a wide range of stocks and market periods. The reason I was 'far beyond' is that I had already read Curtis Faith's 'Way of the Turtle' several years ago. His book is a must for any really serious trader who wants to make his monies consistently appreciate over time. Faith's excellent book assisted me with my goal to develop an optimization approach for any indicator - a 'robust' approach - meaning that the superb trading results obtained from using the optimized indicator were consistently positive (irrespective of the stock invested in, and irrespective of the market conditions). This sounds like a trader's dream, but it really works. At this point, I use the approach only for my own trading, and have little desire to sell subscription services to would-be traders. I suspect that many so-called 'entrepreneurs' who sell subscription services to traders prefer to take traders' cash, rather than invest in the markets themselves. It's much easier to sell suggestions to others, rather than risking one's own cash (especially if the suggestions are not backed up by a sound, well-tested system). Back to Curtis Faith's book: it's full of gems! The gems include "how to determine whether or not you have an 'edge' before participating in a trade" and "how to calculate that edge." There are many other gems. To top it off, the book is also entertaining. Last but not least, this book is one of the few which alert traders to the many hazards involved when trading in the marketplace. Curtis Faith's message: "You must have an edge before you trade." I agree with him. "Way of the Turtle" is a must-read - already many traders think so, for the sale of Faith's books is quite crisp. There is also a later edition out, which I'm considering purchasing, as well. Thank you, Curtis Faith! James Kowalick
G**V
No Silver Bullet
This book contains some useful information but it does not live up to the hype. The material on risk management, position sizing, cognitive bias and psychological weakness is all true, but not unique to this book. In fact, these general principles should be learned by anyone who plans to trade with their own capital. As far as trading systems, the general message is good, but the descriptions of actual methods are vague and sometimes contradictory. The primary flaw of the book is that it describes an experiment in which the traders were using large amounts of other people's money. Trading with OPM allows a degree of detachment which is very difficult to achieve if the money is your own. Make no mistake, it CAN be done, but the trader should consider his account not as money, but as a scoreboard. Ego should not become a factor. Another flaw is that the "trend following" system the author describes can lead to trades of long duration. This presents a serious obstacle. Although backtesting is a useful tool, any system should be tested on live, real-time market data before committing money to it. These real-time tests provide the feedback the trader needs to enter uncharted waters. If this process cannot be completed in a reasonable time span, the prospective trader will lose patience and may jump in without a plan. The book is a useful contribution to my trading education, but it does not stand alone as a monumental work or some magical path to enlightenment.
K**N
Masterwork
This is the best book on systems trading I have ever read; and one of the best on trading in general. Written by Curtis Faith, who was named by The Wall Street Journal as the most successful turtle in the experiment, it has incredible insights into market behavior and the reasoning behind the breakout trend following system used during the experiment. Every part of this book is an important work, right down to the Acknowledgements, Forward, Preface and Introduction. Question after 25 year old question is answered directly from the horses mouth. It couldn't have been written better if Richard Dennis had written it himself. I sincerely hope Mr. Dennis writes a book before he cannot. Hey Rich, dictate it and let someone else write it. Curtis has some intersting things to say about his feelings on the outcome of the turtle experiment. After narrowing down the field considerably, some could still not follow the rules. Proving that not everyone can trade successfully even after they have been taught a winning system. There is more to trading successfully than just a winning system. Consistency and Discipline are the keys. This book is not like any other trading book I have read. I can think of only one other book that I have read that discusses systems trading with such insight. The main problem with the other book is that a lot of curve fitting, or over optimization, takes place in the discussions of systems development. I'm leaving the name of the other book out because it was written by a guy that did something rather outrageous to show what is possible when trading futures. Even he admits it was possibly the worst thing he did because he gave people the impression that what he did could be repeated often. Back to Way of the Turtle. The chapters on systems developement are going to become legendary. Curtis introduces a couple of "robust" measures that I'm sure will come to be the standard; and possibly open the door for even more robust measures. What he calls R-cubed (a more robust measure of Risk/Reward than the MAR ratio) and RAR% which gives a more Robust Sharpe Ratio. He discusses the merits of system testing, strengths, and most importantly, their limitations. To those who poo-poo backtesting on historical data he poses the question, "what is the alternative?" Know the strengths and weaknesses of backtesting and understand the role of robust statistics and you will be able to develop systems that will perform well in the here-and-now. The sections on cognitive biases are worth the price of the book; and so is the bonus chapter with the Original Turtle Trading Rules. How Curtis connects certain market ideas like support and resistence to the cognitive biases is masterful. Being someone who appreciates mathematics and behavioral finance, I view this book as the first of it's kind. It is not just a book by a former turtle. It is much more than that. The insights are nothing short of genius. Thank You Curtis!
D**T
Refer to this one often
This is a good read for trend following systems developers, and is worthwhile. The author demonstrates the need for risk control, internal control and total commitment to ones own trading process. He mentions that long term trend following is likely unsuitable for the average trader/investor, which I would also agree with. How many traders could live with 30-40% draw downs and a win-loss ratio of 35-45%? Not many, which is why only the most committed and well capitalized stock/forex/futures traders will be able to enjoy substantial profits with this general method. The author even reveals that the method had more than a dozen consecutive losses trading a certain futures contract during 1998 before beginning a return to substantial profitability. How many losers would you have endured before bailing out? Five? Ten? Fifteen? Yet, those who had the psychological strength to take every trade would have profited nicely - over the longer term. His discussion of Monte Carlo simulation flaws is also essential for anyone who tends to put too much faith in raw back test/simulation runs. If you read closely, you'll also see that the peculiar Turtle trade entry strategy was/is critical to the overall profitability of the method. This is good stuff, and shows just how defensive Mr. Dennis and Mr. Eckhardt really were of their trading capital. The beauty of the Turtle system lies in its non-optimized, non-curve fitted parameters. Trade it long enough, according to the rules(with sufficient capitalization)and long term trading success can become a reality for totally committed traders. Overall, a very satisfying read, one meant to be referred to on a regular basis. The information contained within it could save beginning futures traders from financial catastrophe.
A**A
Being A Turtle Doesn't Mean You Are Slow
Take a group of intelligent people, teach them a classic trend following trading system, give them some money to trade, and what do you have? One of the most fascinating trading stories ever told. This book is an eyewitness account of the story of the Turtles, told by the most successful of the bunch. And while the book does not go into details about the story it does something better- it explains how they made money and how anyone can use their strategies to make money as well as or better than they did. The author not only details the systems used by the turtles but also describes how systems work, why they work, the problems with system testing, and how to effectively create your own trading system. The story of the turtles begins in chapter 2 and is continued throughout the book. Part story, part trading text book, the author has done a great job explaining how to trade well using simple systems. If the reports are correct, the author made $31 million while trading as a turtle and several turtles are still make millions managing large hedge funds using the same strategies explained in the book. The four main points of the Turtle Class: 1. Trade With An Edge: have a positive expectation. 2. Manage Risk: control risk so you can continue to trade 3. Be Consistent: execute your plan 4. Keep it Simple: catch every trend Think Like a Turtle 1. Trade in the present 2. Think in terms of probabilities not prediction 3. Take responsibility for your own trades. This book belongs in every trader's library even if you do not trade using a system. But after reading the arguments for systems, I cannot imagine why anyone would do so without one, or several. This book, along with Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom has helped me create the 3 systems that I trade. Not only has trading with systems made me more money, it has lowered my risk and helped me sleep better at night. If you want to read more of my reviews of stock trading and investment books, you can get them[...]
B**R
fast delivery
good reading material for new in stock market
T**D
A must read
Love this book
C**E
Leitura obrigatória
Esse livro é muito bom. Leitura obrigatória para todos aqueles que querem ser traders quantitativos. Fala sobre sistemas de trade de maneira objetiva
J**A
Must read!
Excellent book with some very powerful strategies. A huge help in becoming a profitable trader.
M**.
Ottimo libro
Libro molto interessante, spiega in modo dettagliato l'approccio utilizzato dai "Turtle". E' di semplice lettura e contiene dritte davvero interessanti. Molto adatto per il mercato dei future, ma si può utilizzare anche per il mercato azionario.
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